Las Vegas Sun NewsDesertXpress inks deal to add train link from Victorville to Palmdale, making travel to L.A. possible
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Andrew Mack, chief operating officer of DesertXpress Enterprises, points out California high-speed rail routes during a news conference for the DesertXpress high-speed rail project March 25, 2010. A line from Victorville to Palmdale could tie DesertXpress to the California high-speed rail line.
Thursday
7 June 2012
10:54 a.m.
A rendering shows a DesertXpress train, which is expected to reach a top speed of about 150 miles per hour and travel between Victorville, Calif., and Las Vegas.
A seamless high-speed rail system linking Las Vegas with downtown Los Angeles is the goal adopted today by representatives of DesertXpress and the Los Angeles Metropolitan Transit Authority.
DesertXpress Enterprises already is trying to build a high-speed rail line between Las Vegas and Victorville, Calif. A new agreement signed today makes possible a second leg, linking Victorville to Palmdale, Calif., and eventually Los Angeles.
DesertXpress and MTA representatives signed documents that open the door to the Las Vegas-Los Angeles route. The agreement includes a strategy to plan and build a 50-mile high-speed line between Victorville and Palmdale, which would initially connect to Metrolink tracks and eventually be the connection point to California’s planned high-speed rail system.
The DesertXpress plan is part of a larger strategy envisioned by the Las Vegas-centered Western High Speed Rail Alliance to eventually tie into a regional high-speed rail network with routes to Phoenix, Salt Lake City and Denver.
Letters were signed by Tony Marnell II, founder, chairman and CEO of the Marnell Companies LLC, a partner in the DesertXpress project, and Los Angeles County Supervisor Michael Antonovich, the incoming chairman of the MTA board.
“We really need to move forward on this,” Antonovich said. “I’m frustrated that the United States spends billions of dollars in foreign aid that ends up in the pockets of third-world dictators. This project is a loan, so the money is being paid back and it keeps it in the United States and benefits American citizens.”
While developers have several hurdles to clear and hundreds of details to outline, the plan has been hailed as a potential game-changer for transportation between Southern California and Southern Nevada because it addresses the biggest flaw in DesertXpress’ original plan -– the use of Victorville as a southern end point to the route.
Critics have blasted DesertXpress as a multibillion-dollar boondoggle. Many doubted the company's premise that people would drive 100 miles or more to Victorville and park their cars to take a 150-mph, 1½-hour train ride to Las Vegas.
DesertXpress officials argued that the Las Vegas tourism experience would begin upon boarding the train in California, and passengers would be able to confirm hotel reservations and make dinner and show plans en route.
Antonovich, who plans to go to Washington to brief Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood about the plan next week, said working with DesertXpress makes sense because the company and MTA have a mutual need to move passengers between Victorville and Palmdale. Thousands of L.A. commuters live in Victorville and its surrounding communities and would benefit from a rail connection to the city.
Work began in 2010 on getting environmental clearances for a 500-foot right of way between Victorville and Palmdale for the so-called High Desert Corridor, a freeway that would provide an alternate route from the West Coast to inland ports. Antonovich said the rail line would be placed within that right of way.
Several communities have endorsed the link through the High Desert Corridor Joint Powers Authority. The counties of Los Angeles and San Bernardino, the cities of Victorville, Palmdale, Lancaster and Adelanto and the town of Apple Valley back the plan.
Antonovich said the connection would support a system that would extend the MTA’s Metrolink operation from Victorville to San Diego.
The Federal Railroad Administration, which is considering a loan for the project through its Railroad Rehabilitation and Improvement Financing program, is expected to view the strategic change favorably. DesertXpress submitted the loan request more than a year ago.
Earlier this week, FRA administrator Joseph Szabo said while addressing a press conference at the American Public Transportation Association rail conference in Dallas that he could not comment or give updates on DesertXpress's pending loan application.
The 185-mile, double-tracked Las Vegas-Victorville section of the line, the company's engines and passenger cars and train stations would cost an estimated $6.9 billion.
The FRA loan program, dedicated to funding the development of new railroads or intermodal facilities, the acquisition, improvement or rehabilitation of rail equipment or facilities and the refinancing of debt for rail projects, has the capacity to loan up to $35 billion to projects. About $33 billion of that money is available now.
The DesertXpress loan would be the largest in the program’s history. It would have an interest rate equivalent to the yield of U.S. Treasury securities and a 35-year term.
Developers would put up $1.4 billion in private capital, and government funds would not be used to operate the project.
There’s no estimate yet on the cost of the Victorville-Palmdale link or the improvements necessary on the Metrolink line south of Palmdale.
Andrew Mack, chief operating officer of DesertXpress, said it’s difficult to pinpoint cost and timetable details because officials have just begun talking about them. However, early projections are that the Victorville-Palmdale link would cost around $1.5 billion and that the environmental work would take at least until the end of 2013 to complete.
Work could continue on the Victorville-Palmdale link simultaneously with construction on the Las Vegas-Victorville section.
The Metrolink lines south of Palmdale would need to be electrified with double and triple tracks. Rail experts say the existing lines are capable of accommodating trains that travel up to 50 mph, but the goal would be to have trains that could reach 150 mph.
Antonovich, a Republican, has been one of the leading advocates for rail in Southern California at a time when many Californians are getting cold feet about the $68 billion rail system that has been approved in their state. As vice chairman, he aired the high-speed rail measures with the MTA board. In July, when he takes over as chairman, he’ll bring the proposed partnership with DesertXpress to the board.
A USC Dornsife-Los Angeles Times survey published last week found that 55 percent of the California’s voters want the bond issue for the system that was approved in 2008 back on the ballot, and 59 percent would vote against it.
DesertXpress officials hope to change perceptions by re-emphasizing the safety, environmental and employment benefits of train travel. The company has hired R&R Partners, the Las Vegas-based advertising and public relations firm used by the Las Vegas Convention and Visitors Authority, to update the train system’s messaging.
R&R Partners has begun hyping the fact that the train would use exclusive double track that it wouldn't share with freight carriers and the line would include no grade crossings, reducing the possibility of collisions.
Officials anticipate the train would divert 2 million car trips from congested Interstate 15 a year, reducing traffic by an estimated 25 percent. The all-electric operation of the train is expected to reduce emissions by 40 percent along the I-15 corridor and save the equivalent of 8.5 million gallons of gasoline.
Construction of the train line is expected to generate 80,000 primary and secondary jobs. Most of the jobs would be in California because that's where most of the track would be located.
And while many experts have said one of the biggest challenges in building passenger train ridership would be to pry Californians out of their cars, the American Public Transportation Association said earlier this week that higher gasoline prices have driven auto use down and train travel up.
Szabo said there are 44 rail projects in 16 states that are under way or set to break ground. He added that Generation X and Generation Y consumers consider it a “badge of honor” not to own a car and to rely on mass transit or bicycle sharing programs.
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Waste of public money. How much did these guys "bundle" for Harry!?? No one is going to ride this white elephant!
If and only IF this goes to L.A. it could be a good thing.
The problem I see is getting enough people in California to get out of their cars and use it to make it pays it own way.
I have a bad feeling that IF this is ever built it is going to end up being subsidized by the taxpayers.
Would be nice to see REAL FIGURES for building it then what it is going to cost to run. That will give you an idea what it will cost people to ride and if they can attract enough riders to pay the bills.
Most of the time they claim many more riders then what show up when the thing is built.
"...reducing traffic by an estimated 25 percent. The all-electric operation of the train is expected to reduce emissions by 40 percent along the I-15 corridor..."
Am I missing something here? If they only estimate a 25% reduction in vehicular traffic, then how do you get a 40% reduction in emissions just from the implementation of the train? The only mathematically possible way is if all the cars replaced by the train just happen to be the biggest gas guzzlers.
This is one (but certainly not the only) reason everyone is skeptical about Desert Xpress. They keep feeding us obviously phony information. I'd love to see a train link between Vegas and L.A., but this project will probably be a disaster.
I have a serious question. I recently drove from LA to Vegas at 11.00 PM. There was heavy traffic on a Monday night all the way. 90 % of the traffic was trucks carrying cargo. Why are they not adding cargo carriages to the train? This would be an excellent source of reliable revenue!!!! PLease comment
sounds better at first glance---but you know this will cost a fortune when the smoke clears--just can't believe this will ever fly
So it sounds like, IF this whole thing actually even works out, that travelers to/from LA will have to make 2 stops (Palmdale, then Victorville) before getting on the Desert Express. How long will it take, start to finish, to get from the LA station to Las Vegas? If it's already 1.5 hours from Victorville, I'm guessing that, with waiting for trains and travel, there will be little to no time savings for LA travelers to get to Vegas. AND they wouldn't have their car. How is that an attractive option in a city that loves their cars?
This seems like one of the most blatantly corrupt projects going on in our area. Not sure how we can let this happen.
If it doesn't go to LA directly, then it should be cancelled. Who wants to take a train to Victorville? WTF? Also, only 150mph? The Chinese are laughing at us. They are going 250 mph on a maglev train.
What's wrong with reviving passenger train service between LA and Vegas on the existing tracks? How about passenger train service on the existing tracks between Barstow and Bakersfield (connecting to the Cal. high speed line, and existing Amtrak service to Sacramento, San Jose & Oakland)?
I like the idea and concept of high speed rail, but I have serious concerns about this potential boondoggle.
So, as I understand it the "new" idea is get people to take the existing Metrolink to Palmdale, then get on another Metrolink or Desert Express to Victorville and then off to Vegas?
How long will this whole thing take? It currently takes 2 hours to get from LA to Palmdale, then how long will it be to get to Victorville? Then how long is the trip from Victorville to Vegas?
Then how much will this whole experience cost for a round trip ticket.
In my mind unless the line goes directly from Los Angeles (not Victorville or Palmdale) to Las Vegas, then this is just foolishness.
Then the other issue is that Californian's are already regretting their decision to finance a high speed train to run from northern to southern California.
You know, I don't think I am all that smart, but I do think I probably have a lot more common sense than these brain dead politicos who love throwing the peoples money around to give favors to their favorite friends, hacks and relatives.... SAD
Thanks for reading, everybody. Before everybody gets too far "off track," allow me to clarify a few things.
1) We're not talking about taxpayer money here ... it's a loan -- a loan that developers would be required to pay back with interest. I get that many cynics automatically assume that the project is going to fail and would be taken over by the government.
2) What these letters state is that DesertXpress and the Los Angeles Metropolitan Transit Authority -- not the California High Speed Rail Authority -- will talk about working together. Whether the high-speed rail plan flies or not isn't a part of the discussion.
3) The end game is running a train from downtown L.A. to Las Vegas. As much as all of us would like to have all the answers now, it's too early for these entities to know if a train would stop in Victorville or Palmdale. Ideally, it would run nonstop from one end to the other. I'm sure how much a fare would be is going to be part of the discussion. But MTA is looking at the prospect of serving commuters from Victorville to L.A. as well.
Hope this helps. Carry on with the conversation.
Lipstick will not make this money well spend.
NO public money! Let private concerns finance this mess.
now desert xpress is starting to use its noggin. victorville has always been a great start but there needed to be a plan to go all the way to the heart of l.a. palmdale is much closer and if it is connected within a short amount of time (6 months or less) to victorville than i believe this plan may just work.
however, there needs to be real incentive to get people out of their cars and onto the train. tax deductions have proven to be a boon for all sorts of endeavors and i believe they would be enticing to california's frequent commuters. on the flip side it may also be a good idea to turn i-15 into a toll road to encourage people to take the train instead of a car.
This does not make sense. Ontario is 10 miles closer and much more direct to LA.
Something is 'a mis' as Homes would say.
People complained when the government built the Golden Gate Bridge. Let the Rush Limbaughs live in the past. Our green future is before us.
Turning I15 into a toll road will make sure people ride the train.
The benefit of having the train.
1. The outlay is a combination of the developer's money and a government loan. So taxpayers should not have any say to this.
2. Any stopover the train makes will benefit and economically improve the surrounding areas. 16,000 cars a day means hotels, restaurants, entertainment centers will be built.
3. It will boost tourism, the number of foreign visitors to see the first speed train in the U.S.A., a place where one can find the safest place to spend time.
4. I can tell, the people who are against building the train, are the ones who lives in LA who just have self-interest. This infrastructure will benefit those who would rather use their car to go to Las Vegas. Once the train is in place, there will be less traffic.
5. I am a senior citizen, would probably go to Las Vegas more often via the train, returning back on the same day.
6. The government will benefit on: More taxes to collect on tourism and on train revenues, interest on the loan, taxes on added businesses. Both Nevada and California will benefit.
This is the only way this makes any sense at all. A line ending in Victorville doesn't help Californians or Nevadans.
1). It is tax dollars even if it is a loan. The prospect is so risky the private sector either would not make the loan or would charge a high interest rate. The prospect is risky because Desert Xpress is likely to not even make enough to cover operating expenses and thus won't likely repay the loan which means Nevada tax payers must foot the bill.
2). R&R figures and DX figures are bunk. It is highly unlikely it will reduce traffic 25 percent. Europeans can even reach half that amount with significantly more rail subsidies and much higher taxes on auto transport
I find it funny you think money taken from tax payers is not tax payer money....
1) When the whole bidding process began Desert Xpress boasted that the entire project would be privately funded.
2) A federal loan is not private funding.
3) This project changes with the wind making it clear to anyone with a brain that the strategic planning is flawed thus there is every chance in the world for this project to fail.
Richard, there was no need for you to get defensive right off the bat and you, unfortunately, are wrong. We're going to get a rail line to Victorville that no one will use and then it will take another 10 years and heaven only knows how much more tax payer dollars to get the thing linked with Palmdale to try and keep it afloat. But who in the hell wants to go to Palmdale???
This whole idea is as idiotic as if the Cunard Line had said, "Let's have our transatlantic voyages arrive in Boston and then people can take the train down to New York."
Nevada is simply incapable of planning ahead and doing something right the first time instead of intentionally doing something stupid and ill conceived and then spending the next thirty years redoing it.
The I-15 project give anyone a clue? "What's that? Two thousand people a month moving to Vegas? Let's wait a few years until the population doubles then close the highway to widen it."
Genius.
"There you go again," said Ron Reagan and today, it's more of the same. Any private enterprise worth doing needs no "loans" or other help from taxpayers. Either it's a good and viable idea, or it is not. This one is not, I believe. It's the LV Monorail on steroids and has just as much possibility of success. I'm for free enterprise and by that I mean one free from unnecessary red tape & hindrance from government bureaucrats and free from any government monetary assistance. So, ixnay on any tax oneymay going to this ojectpray.
If the environmental studies are not to be completed 'til 2013, the subsequent public comment, findings and decree portions of any study performed under the National Environmental Policy Act will take an additional two years to finalize. The Environment Impact Assessment I participated in for the third runway at SeaTac International Airport took 8 years from start of EIS until we broke ground for construction, but we also had wetlands and salmon/trout spawning streams that the impact had to be mitigated on, so my guess would be 5 years before the ground breaking. I wonder which Prez is going to be able to proclaim THEY built the rail line....lol.
Let's start with getting the RAIL from the MGM to the Airport...okay Harry? Or did you make a deal with the taxi cab lobby?
Once the train goes through Vegas can host another NBA all-star weekend!
"DesertXpress officials argued that the Las Vegas tourism experience would begin upon boarding the train in California, and passengers would be able to confirm hotel reservations and make dinner and show plans en route."
I can do this now. It's called a cell phone..... I live in L.A. and go to Vegas about 8 times a year. I would never consider riding that thing. 150 miles takes about two hours. The train means I have to wait in Victorville for how long?? Then I get to Vegas and have to rent a car. Let's see, 1 1/2 hours by train, probably 45 minutes waiting in Victorville. Renting a car in Vegas and waiting again. Yeh, great idea, I can burn at least four hours instead of two by taking this train. Another Gov't waste of money
Patrick's assessment is pretty much on target.
All of you who are discrediting this idea before it comes to fruition are the reason why this country is so behind the times in so many areas. Have you seen the price of a gallon of gas? The price of an airline ticket? Don't expect those to go down anytime soon! A roundtrip to Phoenix used to cost me $40 in gas ($20/tank there, $20/tank back), but now costs me $100. I welcome a new alternative transportation method for visiting L.A. If the company delivers on its promise and builds service from L.A. to Las Vegas then why wouldn't we welcome this? Look past your car-dependency that Vegas has made you grow accustom to and realize that in other cities, people are used to taking trains and other forms of mass transit. New York, L.A., San Francisco, etc. all are mass transit towns where many people don't have cars. Taking a trip to Las Vegas will be second nature to these people and they would probably pick the train as their option instead of driving or taking a flight. This is not the monorail on steroids, this is something different, something good, and something we should support as Nevadans and Las Vegans.
I'm not a right-wing or left-wing guy, and I'm DEFINITELY not a Republican or Democrat, but I feel pretty confident that Harry Reid is using his liberal supporters as an excuse to make money for his friends. The group is claiming it will boost jobs (so we waste taxpayer money just to artificially create jobs where there is no demand???), that it will be "green", etc. This group just wants to get a huge government loan with an extremely low interest rate so that they can line their pockets. They're using you as pawns. It's too bad, because some of you really believe strongly about the green economy, but that's not what Harry cares about at all.
Dumb idea to go to LA. It should have went down Riverside across Ontario to Irvine (For example).
People that live in LA proper cant afford to take the bus let along a train. People that live in the outskirts (nice areas) of SoCal aren't going to drive hrs into LA to take a train to Vegas.
I'm confused.
Joe do you plan on paying the bills when it turns out I'm right and the rail is a flop?